Comments on: Low Skill Cap and Luck (RNG) in World of Warcraft PVP http://limitlessunits.com/blog/2008/12/15/low-skill-cap-and-luck-rng-in-world-of-warcraft-pvp/ Various musings about games, books and life by Tony Huynh, video game designer. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:19:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: AVerniks http://limitlessunits.com/blog/2008/12/15/low-skill-cap-and-luck-rng-in-world-of-warcraft-pvp/comment-page-1/#comment-13478 AVerniks Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:17:07 +0000 http://limitlessunits.com/blog/2008/12/15/low-skill-cap-and-luck-rng-in-world-of-warcraft-pvp/#comment-13478 As for me, everything is fully satisfied. As for me, everything is fully satisfied.

]]> By: Bizmark http://limitlessunits.com/blog/2008/12/15/low-skill-cap-and-luck-rng-in-world-of-warcraft-pvp/comment-page-1/#comment-3568 Bizmark Mon, 06 Apr 2009 01:44:47 +0000 http://limitlessunits.com/blog/2008/12/15/low-skill-cap-and-luck-rng-in-world-of-warcraft-pvp/#comment-3568 Well thought out - but I'd have to disagree about Global Cooldown. WoW is not shy of it's use of macro's and GCD helps limit this. Some classes rely on using certain attacks more (or as often as possible) where-as others usee less attacks less often. The situation being Mage/Rogue Versus Priest (in a classic RMP melee/caster/healer setup). A priest relies on picking when to use his attacks/heals and the other 2 would rely on bursting out as much as possible to kill a target before he can get one of those attacks off. Without GCD, instant cast classes would make casters or people with ability cooldowns incredibly inferior. GCD makes instant casts adhere to the strict DPS charts just like regular spells. Should an instant cast do as much damage as a full cast? No. Why? Because it requires no setup and is uninteruptable in the classic sense, and no thought of position is required to initiate it. Melee is different in this case, since you don't 'cast' punching someone in the face in different ways :p. RNG can be a pain, but i think positioning and arena design play a bigger part in competative WoW - and that's where the skill comes in. WoW's skill cap means a class can do certain abilities and can react in different ways in different situations... and based on your class and race there is definately a "best" course of action you can follow. This means you opponent is also aware of the next move you will make... so doesn't the actual playing of it become pointless? Not really - generally the player in the better position will win because they are aware of the outcome of their situation on level terms, so they force their opponent into a position they dont want to be in, but are equally aware that they have no choice but to do. It's no different than spamming grenades in a DM game to force an opponent down a certain corridor that you want them in. 2 people both have awesome aim - if one happens to get to the biggest gun and has the most armor first then the under-dog has to out-position them to win. WoW is no different. Biz. Well thought out – but I’d have to disagree about Global Cooldown. WoW is not shy of it’s use of macro’s and GCD helps limit this. Some classes rely on using certain attacks more (or as often as possible) where-as others usee less attacks less often.

The situation being Mage/Rogue Versus Priest (in a classic RMP melee/caster/healer setup). A priest relies on picking when to use his attacks/heals and the other 2 would rely on bursting out as much as possible to kill a target before he can get one of those attacks off. Without GCD, instant cast classes would make casters or people with ability cooldowns incredibly inferior. GCD makes instant casts adhere to the strict DPS charts just like regular spells. Should an instant cast do as much damage as a full cast? No. Why? Because it requires no setup and is uninteruptable in the classic sense, and no thought of position is required to initiate it. Melee is different in this case, since you don’t ‘cast’ punching someone in the face in different ways :p.

RNG can be a pain, but i think positioning and arena design play a bigger part in competative WoW – and that’s where the skill comes in.

WoW’s skill cap means a class can do certain abilities and can react in different ways in different situations… and based on your class and race there is definately a “best” course of action you can follow. This means you opponent is also aware of the next move you will make… so doesn’t the actual playing of it become pointless? Not really – generally the player in the better position will win because they are aware of the outcome of their situation on level terms, so they force their opponent into a position they dont want to be in, but are equally aware that they have no choice but to do. It’s no different than spamming grenades in a DM game to force an opponent down a certain corridor that you want them in. 2 people both have awesome aim – if one happens to get to the biggest gun and has the most armor first then the under-dog has to out-position them to win. WoW is no different.

Biz.

]]> By: RandomNaab http://limitlessunits.com/blog/2008/12/15/low-skill-cap-and-luck-rng-in-world-of-warcraft-pvp/comment-page-1/#comment-3406 RandomNaab Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:57:38 +0000 http://limitlessunits.com/blog/2008/12/15/low-skill-cap-and-luck-rng-in-world-of-warcraft-pvp/#comment-3406 A well put together article, however, there are quite some silly examples in it. Obviously anyone that has ever played WoW on a higher level than the casual gamer despises the RNG, but removing the global cooldown will lessen the skill required for certain classes. Classes not capped by rage or energy (mainly mages, warlocks and retribution paladins, but really anything with mana) Since they'll be able to just spam all of their buttons until they're out of mana. (no this will not add up to 500 apm simply because it's not an rts game and 500 apm is not required. Counterstrike doesn't have 500 apm that doesn't make it any less of a game or esport). Comparing WoW to starcraft as an esport and as a game in general will obviously make WoW look terrible. RNG, though present (Shooting up cliffs and of course the initial scouting), is obviously way less established in starcraft, so in that sence you're bound to be upset by WoW. However I believe that when pitted against eachother in a Best of 3 or Best of 5 match the more experienced WoW team will always win, mainly because luck can only get you so far. In short, RNG is awful, global cooldown is required and starcraft is the best esport ever. -RandomNaab A well put together article, however, there are quite some silly examples in it. Obviously anyone that has ever played WoW on a higher level than the casual gamer despises the RNG, but removing the global cooldown will lessen the skill required for certain classes. Classes not capped by rage or energy (mainly mages, warlocks and retribution paladins, but really anything with mana) Since they’ll be able to just spam all of their buttons until they’re out of mana. (no this will not add up to 500 apm simply because it’s not an rts game and 500 apm is not required. Counterstrike doesn’t have 500 apm that doesn’t make it any less of a game or esport).

Comparing WoW to starcraft as an esport and as a game in general will obviously make WoW look terrible. RNG, though present (Shooting up cliffs and of course the initial scouting), is obviously way less established in starcraft, so in that sence you’re bound to be upset by WoW. However I believe that when pitted against eachother in a Best of 3 or Best of 5 match the more experienced WoW team will always win, mainly because luck can only get you so far.

In short, RNG is awful, global cooldown is required and starcraft is the best esport ever.

-RandomNaab

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